A promotional image for the "Against the Grain" podcast featuring a glass of whiskey, an open notebook with handwritten notes and a pen, and a black baseball cap with a patch that says "Life's About Choices". The background has the podcast's title and tagline, "Business, Lessons, Life, and Liquor."

Business lessons, life, and liquor. Each episode, Jon Umstead and co-host Nic Hess go against the grain to talk straight about entrepreneurship, intrapreneurship, leadership, and building something fun from nothing.

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Against the Grain Podcast

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AG Podcast Ep 10: It Ain’t Build It and They Will Come

Jon and Nic sit down with Kim Bartley for a wide-ranging conversation about Jon’s upcoming book, the ideas behind it, and why the book’s themes resonate with real-world business experience. Kim brings a strong marketing lens from her 31-plus years at White Castle and her decade of teaching at Ohio State, giving the discussion practical weight and perspective.

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